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Ascalon???

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Ascalon???

Post  Pishkirlin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:19 pm

I have been quite busy these days, but I noticed you changed the name of the crew from KoSg to Ascalon. May I ask you why?
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Pishkirlin

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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Korte2 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:15 pm

The primary reason was that I felt like the former name didn't really fit the theme of the game and was awfully long. There were talks about renaming the crew to something involving Ascalon, but since we left the flag, I thought it might as well be named simply Ascalon. I find it to be much better and I think most actively playing would agree.

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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Pishkirlin on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:09 pm

I must admit I don't see neither the need nor the purpose of renaming a crew that stood the test of time surviving its 8th anniversary.
I am also surprised to learn that in your opinion "the former name didn't really fit the theme of the game and was awfully long", as I thought you understood and shared the founding values of the crew.
Last but not least I am quite pissed off by the fact that you didn't ask my opinion about it. I still think that the crew belongs to those who actively play, nevertheless I believe those should pay respect to the ones who came before and spent a lot of time and effort to build the crew.
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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Korte2 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:13 am

Pishkirlin wrote:I must admit I don't see neither the need nor the purpose of renaming a crew that stood the test of time surviving its 8th anniversary.
What I don't see is the test of time itself. There is no reason to keep/change to a crew name other than preference. A community makes a crew, not a name.
I am also surprised to learn that in your opinion "the former name didn't really fit the theme of the game and was awfully long", as I thought you understood and shared the founding values of the crew.
What value is there to the name that I couldn't begin to fathom after 6 years 3 months in the crew? You said it yourself that we should change the name and the statements if we aren't really following it anymore. When renaming the crew (well, choosing a name for a new merged crew) came up, your only objection to the name „Ascalon” was that it's the same as the flag name (which isn't the case anymore).
Last but not least I am quite pissed off by the fact that you didn't ask my opinion about it. I still think that the crew belongs to those who actively play, nevertheless I believe those should pay respect to the ones who came before and spent a lot of time and effort to build the crew.
You weren't online for an eternity by that time and the forum didn't exactly come to mind.
The Earth didn't stop orbiting the Sun since this was done, and it's all reversible. (Hopefully) nobody died as a consequence of this, so please try to keep it rational.

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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Pishkirlin on Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:52 pm

Korte wrote:There is no reason to keep/change to a crew name other than preference. A community makes a crew, not a name.
So the preference of the last Captain counts more than a 8-year old legacy? It's like saying the name of a country could be changed by the Government in charge. So tell me, do you really like "United States of America" as a name for a country? If I were Obama I would change it, because I find it awfully long.

Korte wrote:What value is there to the name that I couldn't begin to fathom after 6 years 3 months in the crew? You said it yourself that we should change the name and the statements if we aren't really following it anymore. When renaming the crew (well, choosing a name for a new merged crew) came up, your only objection to the name „Ascalon” was that it's the same as the flag name (which isn't the case anymore).
I said you may want to change the statement (and namely I was talking about the promotion system), not the name. On the contrary when you were joking about it, I said I would kill you if you changed the name. Indeed, we discussed about renaming the crew 4 years ago, but it was a totally different circumstance. Eventually the merger didn't occur and there was no need to change the name. Not at that time, nevermind now!

Korte wrote:You weren't online for an eternity by that time and the forum didn't exactly come to mind. The Earth didn't stop orbiting the Sun since this was done, and it's all reversible. (Hopefully) nobody died as a consequence of this, so please try to keep it rational.
When I am talking about my feelings, I don't need to be rational.
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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Korte2 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:38 pm

First off, I'm sorry for responding late. I had issues to sort out at the beginning, meant to answer many times, but I would always forget.
Pishkirlin wrote: So the preference of the last Captain counts more than a 8-year old legacy?
I just don't think I've hurt the legacy of the crew one bit with changing the name.

It's like saying the name of a country could be changed by the Government in charge. So tell me, do you really like "United States of America" as a name for a country? If I were Obama I would change it, because I find it awfully long.
The name of a country can be changed, it usually requires a modification of the constitution. My country changed its name 3 years ago, as did some other countries recently.

My question still remains:
Korte wrote:What value is there to the name that I couldn't begin to fathom after 6 years 3 months in the crew?
I just can't bring my mind around how this could be such a horrible change. Maybe the problem is with me, in that case I'm sorry.

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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Pishkirlin on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:55 am

Korte wrote:The name of a country can be changed, it usually requires a modification of the constitution. My country changed its name 3 years ago, as did some other countries recently.
Oh, right. It changed from 'Republic of Hungary' to 'Hungary'.

Korte wrote:I just don't think I've hurt the legacy of the crew one bit with changing the name.
My question still remains: What value is there to the name that I couldn't begin to fathom after 6 years 3 months in the crew?
I just can't bring my mind around how this could be such a horrible change. Maybe the problem is with me, in that case I'm sorry.

In the statement you can read:
Knights of Saint George, like many similar chivalric orders, is an international fellowship. As such we value the dialogue between cultures and individuals. We believe in the win-win principle and that a knight should be mature and responsible, tempered hopefully by a sense of humour. We also esteem such values as altruism and all of the chivalric virtues which go hand in hand with knighthood.
When I established the crew I inteded to run it as a chivalric order (hence the knighting ceremony, coat of arms and other stuff). Perhaps you may think "the former name didn't really fit the theme of the game", but I would like to point out that one of the most renowned chivalric order, the Knights of St. John, during the longest part of its history was a military force fighting the Barbary pirates. As you can see, in this perspective, the original name of the crew did fit the theme of the game.

Granted, when I handed down the captainship to Azeitona I didn't expect him and his successors to keep all the legacy alive and I was quite comfortable with the idea of a less formal environment, nevertheless I didn't expect you to rename the crew on your own - and what's more, without asking my opinion.

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but a new name won't make the crew look cooler. If I were you I would have focused on keeping it active and healthy rather than trying to find a pretty name.
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Re: Ascalon???

Post  Korte2 on Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:36 pm

Not going to quote because it takes a lot of space. Not going to answer things that aren't related to the subject matter either, cause there's no point. I might make a few mistakes because I'm tired so that's that.

Yes, I know exactly what the statements say, I've read them a few times. Unless your point is that the crew statements and the name are somehow mutually determinative and neither should ever be changed, I don't get your point. Yes, I know a bit of history too.

You weren't around when for a bit in the days when I finally decided to change (been thinking about it for quite a while by then). Yes, I could've asked here, but I honestly didn't think you would be all that bothered by it. I guess I was wrong in that much.

You're not bursting any bubble, the rename wasn't directed at increasing membership or anything like that, it was simply a matter of preference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man <--- This. This is what you should avoid.

The reason I didn't reply earlier was exactly that. Of course i had stuff to do, but maily I just didn't want to deal with arguments like that.

Anyway this is getting long, didn't try to write very super awesome arguments because i know that's not what this is about. I guess we just have different ideas of the importance of different things. Always hope to see you in game. Really.

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